Community Participation in VGC Working Group Meeting

Record of Meeting

Date/venue:  12^th November 2024, 5pm, Vincentia Community Hall (Coles carpark)

VGC Working Group Attendees:  Ken Buckley, Rob Dunn, John Dyball, Anna Everts, Derek Frew, Adrian Hogan, Brian Holland, Keith Pinkard, Irish Macneill, Bruce McKenzie, Scott Wake, Rosalie Wood

VGC Working Group Apologies:  Al Byrne, Craig Hatton, Lyn Hay, Prue Karp, Graeme Lawless, Malcolm McCool, Craig Mercier, Ross Popplewell, Mark Williams

Purpose

Intent is to provide information and to capture community members’ input.

Meeting Structure

1. Welcome
2. Provide Community Update on current status of VGC
   1. What’s been going on since the Club was closed in August?
   1. Who’s talking to whom & what’s being discussed?
   1. Why isn’t there public uproar?
   1. What avenues are being explored / pursued to get the Club open?
3. Solicit written questions
4. “Conversation mapping” workshop
5. Answer questions
6. Invite people to get involved

Outcomes

Capture of ideas & actions generated.  Will refine these and use for the public Community Connect day at Burton St Mall on 24^th Nov.

A summary of this meeting will be made available on the VRRA, FoVGC & VM sites.

Will identify focus groups so that people with specific interest / skills to talk further.

Key Organisations

Vincentia Ratepayers and Residents Association (VRRA)

Website:  www.Vrra.org.au        Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/vrra.ccb

Email: vrra.ccb@gmail.com

Friends of Vincentia Golf Club (FoVGC)

Website:  www.fovgc.net            Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/356357500657579

Email:  VGCfriends@outlook.com

Vincentia Matters (VM)

Website:  www.vincentiamatters.org       Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/vincentiamatters

Email: vincentiamatters@gmail.com

Record of meeting

1. Welcome – Ken Buckley (president of VRRA)

Ken welcomed attendees.  Standing room only (~120 people).

Introduced members of the Vincentia Golf Club Working Group (VGC WG) that has been working since the club closure, to achieve progress with the Country Club.

List of Working Group members is included on the last page.

• Update on Status of VGC – Rob Dunn (VM, VGC Committee)

Communications between the Club and the WG

• Despite weekly WG meetings, and email and phone interaction with the Club, nothing of substance on the future of Vincentia has been progressed at this time.
• The Working Group was established to enable discussion with the Club to look at options for the future at of VGC.
• Working with the Club has been frustrating with no one clear line of communications. So this update includes “The Club has stated” i.e. emails or “We understand that” i.e. verbal.
• Ken chairs the WG meetings as VRRA/CCB Chair and send emails to the Club. Our emails have not always been answered and we have had to rely on verbal communications primarily between VRRA President Ken Buckley & VM’s Rob Dunn talking with President & CEO. Often mixed messages and confusion have been the result.
• Separately, a meeting was held between some Men’s golf sub-club committee members and their liaison officer, Director Peter Chivers, regarding golf matters resulting from the club closure.  At that meeting Director Chivers tabled a revised Oakstand drawing, which was not shared with the primary VGC Working Group.

What’s the prospect of the Club re-opening?

• In September, the Club stated that they expected to make a decision about the future of the site by 1 December.  The Board stated that would be based on an alternate development proposal that the WG would get community support for. Given the poor communications with the Club, this has not progressed. And so re-opening the course and clubhouse in the coming months seems very unlikely.
• However, it is understood that the Club is considering re-opening the course and pro-shop for social golf only over summer. Not the clubhouse. A decision on this remains outstanding.

What’s the Club’s position? 

• The Club has consistently asked the WG to look at a revised development proposal to support the future at Vincentia.
• The Club will not entertain an Alternate re-invigoration plan such as that posted by FoVGC (Alternate Scenarios). 
• Club has also stated they will not entertain de-amalgamation
• The Club’s stated intent is development and that any improvements to the club and course Vincentia would need to be self-funding i.e. the money for the investment must come from a sale of part of the course.
• WG meetings have covered a variety of perspectives for the future of Vincentia. This has included some initial work on a wish-list and a framework to assess what an “acceptable” development might look like. However, this was put on hold and there have been no negotiations with the Club on development options. Instead in our last email we have asked for clarification on how the Club would like this to be progressed and await a reply
• We understand that the Club is still talking to Oakstand around options of less dwelling and a standalone clubhouse. But nothing is certain. The land to be sold could be any part of the course – the previous Oakstand footprint, a smaller area around the carpark or part of the original 9.
• Also, we understand full sale still remains under review by the Board. It would face significant, but not totally insurmountable, challenges – community, legal, political. Independent valuation, tenders, members vote, rezoning. A tough route if the Club chose it, expensive and protracted, but still there.

What other avenues are being pursued?

• Legal:
  • Rosalie Wood (FoVGC):
    • GoFundMe was established to raise money to pursue legal avenues & thankyou to all contributors.
    • Initial advice has been received from a legal firm recommended by Golf NSW.
    • Legal letter was sent to the CC on 22^nd October.  No response.  We know that it stopped an action that the Board had planned.
  • Peter Laver (FoVGC):
    • The letter was forthright.  A summary of the fundamental assertions has been posted on FoVGC’s Facebook page.
    • Legal options may require Supreme Court intervention & extremely expensive.
    • Considering non-legal options in the absence of CC’s response.
• De-amalgamation & political:  John Dyball (VRRA)
  • Exploring many philanthropic options to secure VGC for the community including enhancing the facilities and adding new dimensions to the existing infrastructure to provide sustainable growth.
  • Federal and State politicians (including Liza Butler) are supportive of our efforts but limited in their legislative capacity. They will be of great assistance as things develop.
  • We will keep you informed every step of the way as things become clearer and parties express their intentions.
  • CC receives huge tax exemptions to provide sporting and recreational facilities.  Land tax may also be applicable from 31^st December.
• Council:  Rob Dunn
  • VM and VRRA have written to Council seeking their action.  Letters have been acknowledged, though Council’s future involvement remains unclear at this stage, especially with their understandable need to focus on changes since the last election.
  • Media to date – ABC Illawarra Drive (Pete Laver twice), 2ST (Lyn Hay), Spark Shoalhaven article by Cat Holloway.

• Solicitation of written questions

• “Conversation mapping” workshop (Bruce McKenzie, Our Future Shoalhaven)

Overview:

What came out strongly from the well-attended community meeting was loss and sense of grief, and astonishment that the course and club house remains closed; no one was benefiting by its closure.

Participants were asked:

• How can the impacts of closing the golf course, without notice, be reduced on the community and its residents?

• How can the golf club be made viable, so it continues in Vincentia?

• What developments would the community tolerate of the golf club land and buildings by the Country Club?

Basically, what shone through was – what VGC had, should be restored and made more efficient.  Development was not favoured, but if deemed necessary, a small-scale limited development might be considered providing the neighbours and community are not disadvantaged.

Tourism featured strongly because of the location, with walking, cycling, nature appreciation, views that can be capitalised overlooking Jervis Bay, in addition to enjoyment of an iconic golf course. Appropriate accommodation merged into the property without disturbing the richness and beauty of the environment. An improved club house with restaurant, café, auditorium, but capacity for the locals was a priority.

Maintaining the existing amenity was an essential characteristic if future specialist housing projects were to be considered, and then lower height buildings, discreetly dispersed within the confines of the golf course rather than centralised intensive higher rise buildings. No one said they wanted 4 storey aged care accommodation with a club house in the Old Folks home!

Vincentia needs community space for business, social, and recreational interactions, celebration space for parties, weddings, wakes. Reopening will rehabilitate relationships, address the loneliness and sense of isolation of members who relied on the club for the camaraderie they shared. 

The extensive input collected from Vincentia residents and VGC members will be made available at the forthcoming Community Day, where people can have input.

The Community Day – that will involve arts & activities, will be at Burton Street Mall on Sunday 24th November.

• Q&A
• How can I get updates if I don’t use Facebook?
  See VRRA / FoVGC / VM website, email and Facebook details above.
• How can I contribute even if only 2hrs/week?
  • Please identify your interest areas (Media, Legal, Planning issues, Community participation, Other).
  • Course working bees process will resume when the course re-opens.
• Legal:
  • Expenses.  Have spent $18k for initial advice and the letter sent to CC.
  • Is the Liquor licence at risk because bar has been closed?  No.  Board would have to deliberately surrender the liquor licence, which would devalue the property.  Included in the legal letter.
  • Where are the pokie machines?  Don’t know.  Legal letter recommended the CC doesn’t surrender or transfer any gaming licences.
  • If Board is in contravention of the MoU, is there a clause to allow us to dis-engage for failure to meet the commitments?  No.  MoU gave Club an out if continued financial performance didn’t meet defined criteria.  Our accountants’ analysis is that that clause has not been triggered.
    There isn’t a clause in the MoU for us to walk away, however the Registered Clubs Act allows for de-amalgamation.  Process is members of whole club must agree, and members of the dissolved club need to agree.  De-amalgamation requires that both clubs demonstrate they are still financially viable as separate parties.
  • Castle Hill precedent for quality of information that a Board must present to its Members to support a transfer to Non-core resolution, or a sale of Core property vote.  The 25^th Aug 24 resolution did not meet that precedent.  Any future vote must meet this precedent.
  • Would it be beneficial to resign from the club & request refund?
    Only you can resign from Club.  Club cannot terminate your membership unless on disciplinary basis.  You’ve paid fees are based on Club providing services to you.  The Club is denying those services, which is a breach of Fair Trading obligations.  You can go to NSW Dept of Fair Trading & request reimbursement of golf subscription on the basis that Club is not providing the service you paid for.  But ensure you keep & maintain your social membership, in order to vote.
• Strategy:
  • VRRA leading CC engagement to negotiate getting Club open.
  • In meantime, FoVGC has been pursuing legal options to ensure Club does no harm.
• Who are all the groups & splinter groups?  The VGC Working Group started before Club closure – small group of couple of reps of VRRA, VM, FoVGC, golf sub-clubs & residents.  Expanded a little, so we now have 15-20 people attending our weekly meetings.  Available to talk.  See contacts list (below) and websites (above).
• Where do we go from here?  Suggestions taken, including media / protest.
• Political: Suggestions taken.
• We invited Board & management to attend tonight’s meeting, but they haven’t attended.

• Get involved
• What can I do?  Write to Club.  They’re required to respond to members.  Follow up if no response.
• Participants have indicated areas they’re interested in.

CONTACTS

The VGC Working Group comprises the following people:

Person	Neighbour	Organisation
Ken Buckley		VRRA (President)
John Dyball		VRRA
Craig Hatton	Cockbourne Pl	VRRA
Anna Everts		VRRA, VM, FoVGC
Keith Pinkard		Golf
Brian Holland	Louisa Gr	Golf
Derek Frew	Grey Pl	Golf & FoVGC
Irish Macneill	Louisa Gr	Golf
Lyn Hay	Louisa Gr	Golf & FoVGC
Prue Karp		Golf
Rosalie Wood	Louisa Gr	FoVGC
Mark Williams		FoVGC
Rob Dunn	Louisa Gr	VM (VGC committee)
Graeme Lawless		VM (VGC committee)
Ross Popplewell		VM (Chair & VGC committee)
Bruce McKenzie		Our Future Shoalhaven
Scott Wake	Murray St	Residents
Adrian Hogan	Prowse Cl	Residents
Craig Mercier	Omega Pl	Residents
Malcolm McCool	Prowse Cl	Residents
Al Byrne	Cockbourne Pl	Residents